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 Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?

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Gabriel
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micjer
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PostSubject: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 9:32 am

There seems to be a small controvesy brewing about donations being asked for and Little Grandmother.

There is a question on who did the actual asking and whether it was going actually to LG or not. Also some people think that is wrong for LG to be asking for donations.

Ok the deal is what I have read is that she had to move out of her house after agreeing to become a Shaman. She is apparantley living with a friend with her family. She has really no source of income.

Some people are willing to give generously, while others feel if she is the real deal the universe should provide for her!

Drunvalo M doesn't think twice about asking for donations or charging for books or to go to events that he has organized.

So is it wrong ..... does it tarnish a wonderful message? scratch


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micjer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 9:41 am

Personally, I find her not to be in it for the money. Until the paradigm changes we all need money to exist unfortunately. I heard her say that if one cannot afford to give money to someone in need that prayers and blessings were also a good thing.

As far as charging for events, there are costs associated with organizing and advertising and someone has to pay for it. It won't just pay for itself.
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WineHippie
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 2:33 pm

asking for (begging for) money cheapens the message...
yes, the events take money to produce, however, if a
person has no money, there should be some way for them
to contribute vibrations, enthusiasm, knowledge which
are all more valuable than money... to be told, as i have been
in the past, including by the drunvalo organization, that they do
not need priceless contributions like sweat equity, that they only
need the cash, pisses me off - in matters of higher consciousness
and in terms of awakening the people, all of a like mindedness
should be included - there is a gathering of rainbow tribes around
the four corners in mid-july, but the cost of $100/day is
prohibitive for me, so i am left out, yet i feel like they are truly missing
the spiritual contributions of people like me, and if success in
lifting the vibration is the goal, then why the exlusion - seems to
me that making money has more importance, and i just cannot agree
with that priority
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zuni
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 3:08 pm

agreed winehippie.......
plus i was wondering why in all the ceramonies she has photos of it s just a bunch of white yuppie looking type folks at her ceromonies ??? hummmmm
big red flag for me..... no indians just white ass yuppies.... also where are these other "wisdom keepers" ? scratch I dunno
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micjer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 3:16 pm

Yep I agree. That is the thing that bothers me about Drunvalo. Buy my books/ DVD's and pay to come to my ceremonies. Commercializing Hopi prophecy seems wrong to me. poop
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Biggles
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 5:52 pm

If being a shaman is a full time job and they have asked her to leave her home and most likely paying job she might have had to be a shaman I cannot understand why LG and her people cannot get together and build her a small cabin on their land or something like that.

As far as food goes, people bring food for Buddhist monks to eat, so either they could donate food or what's wrong with each family maybe donating a dollar each for her livelihood if she gives up her other life to become a full time shaman?
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micjer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 7:46 pm

She was recently in Hawaii and has plans to go to Sweden. Who is paying for these trips. I would love to go to Hawaii, but there is this thing called an airplane ticket, which seems to cost a few dollars (donations)

Who pays for Drunvalo to travel all over the world?

The more I think about it, hippie I am with you this asking for money really pisses me off too. Donations no problem ...... but did Jesus charge for his preachings?

I went to Bashar's new site and same friggin thing. More worried about copyright infringement and making sales of new DVD's to pay for the Bashar empire / website.

I really want to believe that LG is the real deal, but on the other hand I want to do my checking because I don't want to be misled.

@zuni ... great point on the white folk.




Banging Head Banging Head
Geez why can't anything be simple anymore.
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micjer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 7:49 pm

Biggles wrote:
If being a shaman is a full time job and they have asked her to leave her home and most likely paying job she might have had to be a shaman I cannot understand why LG and her people cannot get together and build her a small cabin on their land or something like that.

As far as food goes, people bring food for Buddhist monks to eat, so either they could donate food or what's wrong with each family maybe donating a dollar each for her livelihood if she gives up her other life to become a full time shaman?

Good points Biggsy. At this point let's keep an open mind. I dunno
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sky otter
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 8:54 pm

scratch

wow..figures it was too good to be true..sigh..very sad..but truly not unexpected....

i have spent time with another "wisdom keeper" Rainbow Eagle...but it was a very nominal charge for a day of hearing what he had to say..and i'm not sure he got the cash anyway cause it was at a spiritualist place called lilydale in eastern NY...
he did have his book for sale at a discount...and you could give a 'love donation' if you were inclined.
he never ask for anything but some of his followers were pushy about how he stayed with friends and how he got from place to place also via friends.

that being said.. i wouldn't want to work for nothing cause i like to eat..
but
i have also felt certain things shouldn't be charged for

when i stared reiki.. i did pay for my learning and attunements..but i never charged for any sessions....
luckily i also never went out on my own
the sad thing was it was judged wierdly... scratch ...folks who could afford to pay didn't think someone giving reiki away was worth it
while at the same time there were some unsavory folks who would be there twice a day cause there was no cost..
we do live in a very monetarily oriented world.....sadly

soo while i have no intention of sending her cash..i will try not to judge her on wanting to eat
and i will probably listen for a little while longer as long as it feels right and while for me it is in a positive vein

but when you really get down to it..it's a moot point..we need to stop listening and start thinking for ourselves
we have pretty much heard it all and are on repeats..and i feel it is time for more doing
this is all of course my opinion and i'm fine if you disagrre or think i am nuts

love

wave

geeze M..after all that i forgot to answer your question

no i don't think its wrong to ask..but it does leave a nasty taste, doesn't it.. Sleep
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Biggles
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 9:06 pm

I am just making a comment re: where to live besides with a friend and eat, going overseas etc is another thing altogether of course.
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micjer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 22, 2010 9:30 pm

i don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Her message is wonderful and resonates with my own beliefs, and I think this is why it felt so right. One does not have to donate or pay anything to hear her vids. In time we will know if she is after the almighty dollar. watchingb


http://littlegrandmother.net/default.aspx

Her new site is under construction, but has no donate link associated with it which is good.

I find her way less offensive than Drunvalo and the new Bashar site is really offensive IMO.







http://bashar.org/
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Gabriel
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 2:07 am

I agree hippy and mic and zuni and biggs and sky.

Some things should not be paid for, Like everything listed above by all of you.

I have always been suspicious of anyone that charges for their message. If people are paying for big places to hold meetings and they must charge for admission, then I see it as a way for some one to make money and not necessarily a spiritual experience first.

Y'shua Messiah said, freely you have been given freely give. If you must ask money for your message, then in my opinion you are thinking of money first and not the message.

If God cannot open up places for a person to speak there message for free, then God is not backing up that person in my opinion.

Y'shua spoke to crowds on mountain sides, from boats on the water, and never charged a cent, as a matter of fact on more than two occasions, people were fed without cost to the people.

Even the organized churches give donated money by people to speakers, but they do not charge an admission fee. That is one good thing the perverted churches do.

My plan for the possible coming hardships as an example of what would I do if I had no food or place to live, no money and no family.

I will rely on God to feed me through my ability to barter my work for food, or to speak in a Church if a door opens there for me?

I will try to feed myself the best way I can, but if I am unable to for whatever reason, God will provide me my food, if the birds have to bring me something to eat? Or the squirrels, share with me.

There are examples of this in the Bible.

It was written that Y'shua Messiah was homeless. He had no paying job, yet he always had a place to sleep and food to eat, because he "first" gave freely of that which he was given.

I am not against people trying to make some kind of living, but I am suspicious if their message claims to be spiritual and charge for it.

Just my two cents, pun intended.



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Louise
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 5:10 am

I have listened to some of her messages. I find myself moving away from much info as there is just too much out there. I find myself listening more to my own inner voice and the messages of my own indigenous grandmother--her love, strength, courage and wisdom.

I was attracted to Ringing Cedars/Anastasia and the message of living naturally and in harmony with the earth. In the series, Anastasia lives in the wild and is sustained by nature. There is a rising movement in this direction and I am taking small steps forward.

While I understand the need to charge for one's work and pay for expenses, balance is key. It takes great faith and courage to make great changes and live without money.

I just remembered this amazing woman--a true inspiration:

Peace Pilgrim:

She didn't stop there. She kept on walking, crisscrossing the United States six times, walking for the rest of her life. She wore navy blue slacks and shirt, tennis shoes and a self-designed navy blue tunic with pockets all around the bottom in which she carried her only possessions: a comb, a folding toothbrush, a pen and her small blue leaflets to pass out on the way. On the front of the tunic were the letters, PEACE PILGRIM, and on the back was: WALKING COAST TO COAST FOR PEACE, and later; 25,000 MILES ON FOOT FOR PEACE. This was her outfit for the rest of her life, with new clothes being brought for her and new letters sewn on by friends as the old wore out.

She moved north in the summer and south in the winter to take advantage of the weather. After the first 25,000 miles she stopped counting. She carried no money, nor would she accept any. Contrary to the tradition of the Buddhist monk with his begging bowl, she did not ask for anything. She went without food until it was offered to her or she found it in the wild. She slept wherever she could, such as a bus station or a corn field, if no one offered her a place to sleep. "I seldom miss more than four meals in a row," she told her many audiences. To all who would listen she talked about the vital need for peace and the practical things that anyone could do to work for peace—peace in the world and peace within, which she recognized as interwoven.

Living in this way was no mere caprice. Peace Pilgrim explained, "I was determined to live at the need level, that is, I didn't want more than I need when so many have less than they need." (Peace Pilgrim, 1982, p.30) She traveled "on foot and on faith," determined to be an activist for peace. Early on, she left even her name behind when her sister's family began to be bothered by the F.B.I., who suspected this peace walker was a communist. She wanted to spare them the harassment.


http://www.peacepilgrim.com/

Please check out the link and explore--she is an inspiration flower
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Louise
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 5:15 am

“From all the things you read, and from
all the people you meet, take what is good
and leave the rest. For guidance and for
truth it is much better to look for the
Source through your own inner teacher
than to look to people or books. Only if
something within you says, "This is the
truth. This is for me," does it become a
part of your experience.”
Peace Pilgrim: Her Life and Works
in Her Own Words - sunny
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pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 2:11 pm

Louise wrote:
“From all the things you read, and from
all the people you meet, take what is good
and leave the rest. For guidance and for
truth it is much better to look for the
Source through your own inner teacher
than to look to people or books. Only if
something within you says, "This is the
truth. This is for me," does it become a
part of your experience.”

Peace Pilgrim: Her Life and Works
in Her Own Words - sunny

So true Louise, yet we know what is true for us today may change tomorrow.

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Biggles
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 5:09 pm

I went to the Peace Pilgrim site Louise, I feel like such a loser, I complain when I am too cold, complain when I am too hot. Complain when my neck gives me trouble. I feel like such a weakie.
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Louise
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 23, 2010 7:27 pm

"This is the way of peace:
Overcome evil with good,
and falsehood with truth,
and hatred with love."
....Peace Pilgrim
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micjer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 24, 2010 7:40 am

Louise wrote:
"This is the way of peace:
Overcome evil with good,
and falsehood with truth,
and hatred with love."
....Peace Pilgrim


Very wise words.



I listened to LG message again, and when she talks about the bobber of consciousnes, it made me think.


My mind consciousness thinks about things like is she doing this for money and is her message spoiled by this.

However my heart consciousness thinks about the rest of the message. It truly is wonderful and does resonate.

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Lightning222
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 24, 2010 12:21 pm

I've been fence sitting on this and other threads lately, but isn't it about the message and not the messenger????

I could care less about the person delivering or being used as an instrument to deliver the truth. If that truth resonates with you, great. If not, don't listen.

As far as charging to hear it or making money in other areas, that's a personal decision for you whether or not you wish to contribute to someone's income, it shouldn't change the message.l
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micjer
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 24, 2010 1:26 pm

Lightning222 wrote:
I've been fence sitting on this and other threads lately, but isn't it about the message and not the messenger????

I could care less about the person delivering or being used as an instrument to deliver the truth. If that truth resonates with you, great. If not, don't listen.

As far as charging to hear it or making money in other areas, that's a personal decision for you whether or not you wish to contribute to someone's income, it shouldn't change the message.l

Well said Deb. And it is the message that counts. iagree
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WineHippie
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 24, 2010 3:13 pm

i will mention here, that by contrast, when i first started to
wake up, i got my books at the library and never paid a cent
for the knowledge - i paid with my time and attention, but people
like jane roberts (the seth material/books) never charged for
discussion - yes, they published (and sold) books, but like i said,
you had the choice of buying or getting them free at the library...
***
ultimately, i do agree that the message, if truth, is the important
thing, and therefore i have honed my sense of discernment
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Reunite
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 24, 2010 6:55 pm

Lightning222 wrote:
I've been fence sitting on this and other threads lately, but isn't it about the message and not the messenger????

I could care less about the person delivering or being used as an instrument to deliver the truth. If that truth resonates with you, great. If not, don't listen.

As far as charging to hear it or making money in other areas, that's a personal decision for you whether or not you wish to contribute to someone's income, it shouldn't change the message.l

+1
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Louise
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PostSubject: Re: Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money?   Is it wrong for wisdom keepers to ask for money? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 24, 2010 9:33 pm

Louise wrote:
“From all the things you read, and from
all the people you meet, take what is good
and leave the rest. For guidance and for
truth it is much better to look for the
Source through your own inner teacher
than to look to people or books. Only if
something within you says, "This is the
truth. This is for me," does it become a
part of your experience.”
Peace Pilgrim: Her Life and Works
in Her Own Words - sunny
take what you like and leave the rest~~~~~ flower
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